Salaam all,
I recently gave a presentation to some friends on the “Dhū al-Qarnayn problem” at their request, and after preparing for it I realized this problem is actually mostly solved. So I’ve decided to pause my previous work and focus on writing an article on it, laying out a comprehensive solution that tackles the major problems (the identity of DQ, why does the Qur’anic story resemble the overall narrative framework legend, Gog & Magog and the wall etc). This will be a relatively quick article to write; I’m aiming to have something out in a few months, but I think it should solve all the major questions at least in my mind.
The article won’t be dating the entire legend to a post-Qur’anic era, nor will I make a textual (manuscript) argument as has been done before (IMO unconvincingly). I’ll be working within the framework of the Yaqeen article I wrote earlier. As such, this might be a good case study in how a categorical solution is applied to a particular example in detail.
Update (2024):
Since people keep asking me about this: the article will take a lot longer than I expected, both due to life events and also an increased scope of what the article will cover. I already have a high level solution ready, the work that still needs to be done to flesh that out is immense, and I’d rather be thorough and late than provide an inferior solution. Some time in 2025 seems to be likely.
Update (Oct 2025)
Still working on this article :). The delay is mainly because I want to do justice to the topic. My original plan was to produce a short, unpublished 5–10 page piece that offered a high-level overview (hence the very short initial timeline). Early last year, however, I realized that approach wouldn’t cut it. Each major motif really needs 10–30 pages of discussion to be handled properly.
That said, there are already about 70 pages written, enough material for several separate articles. But there’s still a lot left to research. If I had to make another estimate, the earliest realistic completion date would be the end of 2026. I know this is a significant stretch from my original timeline, but I’m doing my best while balancing a full-time job, a family and a new baby.
Pondering Islam 
Hadi İnşaALLAH. Bekliyorum.
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Selamun Aleyküm Taha. I’m Oğuzhan (from Turkey). What do you think about the theories of Nicolai Sinai, Stephen J. Shoemaker, and David Marshall? Can you please recommend articles (or books)?
Nicolai Sinai’s ”Inner-Qur’anic Chronology” – in his book The Quran: A Historical-Critical Introduction, 2017.
Stephen J. Shoemaker, The Death of a Prophet The End of Muhammads Life and the Beginnings of Islam, 2012.
David Marshall, God, Muhammad and the Unbelievers, 1990.
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Radically skeptical revisionist orientalists and their speculations and theories are not to be given any thought.
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Fascinating subject. I look forward to reading about it and if you know of any sources I’d appreciate links. But you might be too busy for that. 🙂
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Salaam bro, I have a Youtube channel with same name. Nice coincidence. Really like your wrting. Keep it up!
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Assalamu Alaikum , can you also address the people who say that by time these stories resemble more to the dhul qarnayn narrative, for eg first it’s only about walls built to repel gog Magog built by Alexander (1st century) then after a few centuries it also talks about wall being built between a mountain, then as it gets closer to 7th century it’s more resembling.
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Salamu Alakyum
Any updates on this? Sorry if this has been asked a lot.
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Salamu Alaykum,
Sorry if many people have asked but are there any updates on this?
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Sorry, it’s a while away. I haven’t had time to work on it the last few months due to a lot of life things going on. But I’ve started working on it again, I’d like to finish it this year.
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I read your article from 2020 regarding some reflections, i’m curious about the western ICMA. Do you know of any studies regarding how it’s confirming Islamic history and studies regarding it confirming any miracles?
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Salam, I was wondering in your article if you will also talk about how Josephus first mentioned the wall in first century, Alexander etc, then pseudo- hegissipus mentioned the wall, and then Alexander romance which got even closer, and finally syriac Alexander legend, and will you respond to the accusation that the overall legend got closer and closer from the 1 century to the 7 century?
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Yes the evolution of the story towards the time of the Qur’an will be addressed. It’s not something that affects my argument
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As the founder of r/AcademicQuran and someone who is very interested in the scholarship and intertexts surrounding the story of Dhul Qarnayn, I’m looking forward to reading this article of yours and perhaps giving my thoughts on it.
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Theologically, DQ was never a problem.
Even if he was Alexander, obviously the greek did not have a prophet and we believe that thoses who did not have a prophet sent to them will not be treated as disbelievers but God knows within their hearts and he will test them and decide.
So Alexander could have been a polytheist who believed in Multiple Gods, but still be saved and enter paradise because he was not exposed to true monotheisim by a prophet.
I honestly can’t interpret your obsession with the topic of DQ in a good faith.
Obviously theology and academia don’t always allign and agree with each other, and academia has contradicted many things in biblical scripures.
You and your other admin Chonkshonk’s obseession with the topic is purely theological in trying to prove that the Quran made a mistake, otherwise no academic would be so obsessed and making so many topics trying to reply even to theological responses while believing in the bible that is full of proven false statements.
That is just dishonest and hypocritical.
Trying to manify an academic opinion that may contradict an islamic position on the surface (even though it is not theologically problematic as I showed above) will also throw your bjble under the bus!
BTW, trying to pass Chonkshonk as an islamic academic is absolutely ridicoulus!
A know islamophobic christian apologist who after failing to defend christianity miserably in the academicbiblical subreddit decided to switch to act like an islamic academic due to the obvious inferiority complex in a (what about islam!) move.
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Asalamu Alaykum,
Concerning the Syriac Alexander Legend (Neṣḥānā) and other extrabiblical traditions, namely the Lection of Jeremiah and the Kathisma infancy narratives, what is the likelihood that the Quran influenced them rather than vice versa? The contemporary dating of these texts (along with remarkable similarities)–629 CE for the Alexander Legend and 610-632/7th century for the Lection of Jeremiah–strongly suggest that oral traditions/the text from one source shaped the other.
My point of view is that, while the stories found in these texts, such as that of Dhul-Qarnayn or Jesus speaking from the cradle, are founded upon an earlier source (likely predating Alexander in the case of the Syriac tradition), the striking similarities between the Quran and contemporary sources indicate Quranic influence on these already-existing narratives. I understand that many scholars, Shoemaker and Reynolds most notably, argue the reverse, even going as far as to suggest a later composition date for the Quran. However, it seems more than reasonable, assuming that the Quran could have divine authorship, to suggest that its specific telling of the stories are unique to itself, bearing no immediately recognizable influence from contemporary or near-contemporary sources (as far as I’m aware).
When time permits, can you correct or comment on my understanding? To clarify, I understand that all the narratives in the Quran can be traced back to earlier works (the biblical cannon and apocrypha mainly); however, I believe that the specific phrasing and content of the stories in the Quran and unique to it, rather than being influenced by contemporary traditions/texts. Thank you in advance for any insight you might add!
Sincerely,
Quin
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Salamu Alaykum, in case you haven’t come across this yet, Q18:93’s description of DQ’s difficulty in communicating with the people of the Caucasus precisely parallels the phenomenon described by renowned linguist J.C Catford as “Caucasian polyglossia”, which historically resulted in the people of the Caucasus finding great difficulty understanding, or making themselves understood, to foreign visitors. See the attached excerpt from his book “Mountain of Tongues: The Languages of the Caucasus” for the historical accounts found in the Greek writings of Strabo (64 BC – 24 AD) and the Latin writings of Pliny (23 AD – 79 AD). Importantly, this detail is no where to be found in the Syriac legend, nor in any version of the Romance for that matter, which provides strong evidence that the Qur’an could not have “borrowed” its information from contemporary sources.
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Salaam, yes, I agree, I think the Qur’an is implicating this belief here. I think it’s the Qur’an’s way of confirming the third journey was to the Caucasus. I’m not sure if I’d make such a strong claim as that this is miraculous— it might be that this tradition was accessible, not through textual sources, but as an ongoing phenomenon that traders to the Caucasus encountered and attested to.
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Yep it could definitely be a way of confirming the journey’s location, after all, the linguistic diversity of the Caucasus was a defining feature of that land. Still, I feel that the fact later exegetes didn’t make the connection with Caucasian polyglossia suggests the information was hard to access.
Also interested to hear your thoughts about the further parallels with the Libyan spring and the Indian gymnosophists? The information about the Siwa spring in particular appears to have only been accessible through these encyclopaedic sources, as the importance of the Siwa oasis had dwindled since Roman times, to the extent that it was home to just 40 or so men in the year 1200. There would thus be no reason for anyone in the 7th century to suppose that Siwa was an important enough location to warrant a visit from Dhul Qarnayn
“When the traveler and historian Strabo visited Egypt in 23 BC he could note that the oracle of Amon had lost almost all importance … The next thousand years in Siwa’s history were difficult ones. Social and economic unrest followed the dissolution of Roman political power. Bedouin tribes raided the scattered settlements of the oasis and disrupted what little commerce the Siwans had. Around the year 1200 the population was reduced to 40 able-bodied men, perhaps 200 people in all.”
https://archive.aramcoworld.com/issue/198805/siwa-oasis.extraordinary.htm
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please add a refutation to the claims made in this post. Especially the claim about the quran borrowing from the Alexander legend due to the new use of the material ” bronze ” which was supposedly meant to symbolise the danielic imagery and bronze age of Alexander’s time.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicQuran/s/yPXAlZ93pd
https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicQuran/s/yPXAlZ93pd
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please refute the claims made in this post .Specifically the one that seems to say that the quran took from the Alexander legend due to the word “bronze” being used to build the wall , being newly used in the neshana which is supposed to indicate danielic imagery or symbolise the bronze age of Alexander’s time
https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicQuran/s/yPXAlZ93pd
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Hello, can someone clarify what syriac word is used for “horns”? Because we already know that the Qur’an influenced the ethiopic alexander legend, this is what secular westerners concluded at least. The ethiopic explicitly uses two horns, the Qur’an explicitedly says two horns. So what’s the Syriac romance?
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Salam!
Hope you’re doing well. I just wanted to ask when this article is coming out… I feel like this part you mentioned will answer all of my questions regarding it.
This topic as a whole has been really bugging me these days. I’m trying to reconcile it in my head but no avail. Your previous article about this topic and the one on Yaqeen did help me though!
Looking forward to your response
May Allah bless you!
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Assalamu alaikum akhi. It’s been 2 years. Will you update again?
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Edited with a short update.
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Salamu Aleykoum Taha
I hope this message finds you well.
My name is Eduard, and I am a revert Muslim (for about three years now). Recently, I came across some supposed parallels between certain Homilies of Jacob of Serugh and verses of the Qur’an. Some of them are quite striking, especially between Jacob of Serugh’s Christological Credo and particular Qur’anic passages. The problem is, me being completely un-academic – it surely makes me confused and a bit distressed. I want to strengthen my faith with proper knowledge and rationale.
This has led me to some theological questions that I am genuinely struggling to understand:
I mean no offense with these questions; I am simply seeking to understand more deeply how Revelation operates and how the Qur’an relates to prior religious expressions.
Thank you for taking the time to read my message. I would be very grateful for any insight or guidance you can offer.
Is there anychance you could send me a private e-mail with your response? Much appreciated. Or here works as well. Thank you so much.
Warm regards,
Eduard
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